Mrs Betty Oldham: We aren’t talking about civil servants. We are talking about coils of wire, with plastic coats to keep them warm.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, but staff are in and out all the time.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Why?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Taking deliveries, making withdrawals, checking records, security patrols, fire inspection, stock-taking and auditing, and so forth.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Well, they can wear gloves can’t they?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: They could. It’s a question of staff welfare policy.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Well, I suggest this policy is costing the taxpayer millions of pounds. (silence) Nothing to say, Sir Humphrey?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It is not for me to comment on government policy. You must ask the Minister.
Mrs Betty Oldham: But you advise the Minister.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: I think the Chairman is aware that I cannot disclose how I advise my Minister. The Minister is responsible for policy.
Mrs Betty Oldham: All right. So we’ll ask the Minister. Now then, what about those stationery requisition savings?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: That would have involved putting very considerable government patronage in the hands of junior staff.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Considerable government patronage? Buying a packet of paper-clips?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It is government policy to exercise strict control over the number of people allowed to spend its money. I’m sure you’ll agree that this is right and proper.
Mrs Betty Oldham: But it’s plain common sense to allow people to buy their own paper-clips.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Government policy has nothing to do with common sense.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Well, don’t you think it’s time that the policy was changed? (silence) Well, Sir Humphrey?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It is not for me to comment on government policy. You must ask the Minister.
Mrs Betty Oldham: But the Minister advises us to ask you.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: And I am advising you to ask the Minister.
Mr Alan Hughes: When does this end?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: As soon as you like.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Well, let’s come to the roof garden.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: With pleasure. It was part of a wide variety of roof insulation schemes which the government undertook to test, in the interest of fuel economy.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Seventy-five thousand pounds?
The actual report of Sir Humphrey Appleby’s evidence to the Select Committee, reproduced by kind permission of HMSO.
[We have reprinted it in more readable form — Ed.]
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It was thought that the sale of flowers and vegetable produce might offset the cost.
Mrs Betty Oldham: And did it?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: No.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Then why not abandon the garden?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Well, it’s there now. And it does insulate the roof. But we aren’t building any more.
Mrs Betty Oldham: But you’ve wasted seventy-five thousand pounds.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It was the government’s policy to test all the proposals for fuel saving.
Mrs Betty Oldham: At this fantastic waste of taxpayers’ money? You agree the money was wasted?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It is not for me to comment on government policy. You must ask the Minister.
Mrs Betty Oldham: Look, Sir Humphrey. Whatever we ask the Minister, he says is an administrative question for you. And whatever we ask you, you say is a policy question for the Minister. How do you suggest we find out what’s going on?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Yes, I do think there is a real dilemma here, in that while it has been government policy to regard policy as the responsibility of Ministers and administration as the responsibility of officials, questions of administrative policy can cause confusion between the administration of policy and the policy of administration, especially when responsibility for the administration of the policy of administration conflicts or overlaps with responsibility for the policy of the administration of policy.
Mrs Betty Oldham: That’s a load of meaningless drivel, isn’t it, Sir Humphrey?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: It is not for me to comment on government policy. You must ask the Minister.
SIR BERNARD WOOLLEY RECALLS:[37]
